DISQUS

static{fade}: Prop 8 = "separate but equal" redux

  • randplaty · 1 year ago
    Prop 8 is one matter. Activist judges are another matter. The fact remains that constitutional amendments were passed specifically regarding racial inequality long before the courts ruled to enforce them. Why is it that the gay community is not PROPOSING a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to marry? Why go to the courts first? Nobody can argue that the equal protection laws in this state were written with gay marriage specifically in mind. In properly interpreting any text, you must examine the author's intent. That's why it's judicial activism. The judges ignored the intent of the law and put their own intent into the law.

    "First, because of the long and celebrated history of the term “marriage” and the widespread understanding that this term describes a union unreservedly approved and favored by the community, there clearly is a considerable and undeniable symbolic importance to this designation. Thus, it is apparent that affording access to this designation exclusively to opposite-sex couples, while providing same-sex couples access to only a novel alternative designation, realistically must be viewed as constituting significantly unequal treatment to same-sex couples"

    The key words where are "favored" and "approved." The Supreme Court of California is giving same sex couples access to marriage because marriage is "unreservedly approved and favored by the community" while civil unions are not. If this is the biggest difference between civil unions and marriage, the courts are essentially forcing the community to give favor and approval to same-sex relationships when they do not want to. If that's not judicial activism, I don't know what is.
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    Actually, in California the House and the Senate passed a bill guaranteeing marriage equality -- I believe it was in 2006 or 2007, though I did not Google it before replying. It was vetoed by Governor Schwarzeneggar, ostensibly for the same reason he is against Proposition 8: there is no need for extra legislation. He was confident it would work itself out in the courts, which is exactly what happened.

    Follow-up -- found this: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/200710...
  • willotoons · 1 year ago
    Hi Hillary!

    I think this is spot on in terms of showing people how discriminatory (therein disgusting) this Prop is & how taking away civil rights should never be tolerated.

    I am blown away every time I hear someone is for Prop 8 to "protect the children" when it's been reiterated time & time again that nobody has to fear "they'll be taught about gay marriage in our schools." Seriously... that is the least of your problems - the larger of which is the fact that most schools are unable to responsibly teach sex education period - thanks to Bush's asinine Abstinence only edjucation - and we have more pregnant teens now more than ever and rampant STDs! Those are your STRAIGHT kids not getting taught right, thanks to a bible thumping Republican.

    What's more is that there is no harm in being open & honest about the facts of life with your children. Families who wish to celebrate their love & create a sacred union in respect & honor of that love is a beautiful thing. I like how this video points out that it's like fearing two minorities of any kind to get married.

    As I wrote on my blog, but I'll post it here again... there is absolutely no reason that anyone in America today should have their civil rights taken away because of their sexual preference. Seriously, it's like saying only people who have all 10 fingers can get married. Or only cat lovers can get married. Or you have to be over 5'8" or something ridiculous. It IS about equality and civil rights. It's 2007 and it's up to us to move forward & not backwards!
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    > It's 2007 and it's up to us to move forward & not backwards!

    Aside from the fact that it's 2008 (not 2007 :) I whole-heartedly agree, Willo. Thanks for your continued support, not only of No On Prop 8, but also of me & AB.

    <3
  • willotoons · 1 year ago
    haha! Oh why yes it is! LOL. Sorry, my brain is fried today... All this election anxiety... I feel I need a big hug! Speaking of, let's talk about where you're going to be for the election tomorrow night. Would love to see you two! xo
  • karaoke steve · 1 year ago
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    HA! "Paid for by repressed homosexuals against homosexuals."

    On a serious note, though -- Larry Lessig asks a good question: If the goal of Prop 8 is to protect and strengthen marriage, then we can play our own game of slippery slope... If divorce is detrimental to the concept of marriage, then the it could be construed that people who have been divorced should not be allowed to re-marry.

    Sure to really get under the skin of most of the Prop 8 supporters, but a strong and cogent argument:
    http://blip.tv/file/1404208
  • Samantha · 1 year ago
    Proposition 8 is simple and straightforward. It contains the same 14 words that were previously approved in 2000 by over 61% of California voters: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”

    Because four activist judges in San Francisco wrongly overturned the people’s vote, we need to pass this measure as a constitutional amendment to RESTORE THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE as a man and a woman.

    Proposition 8 is about preserving marriage; it’s not an attack on the gay lifestyle. Proposition 8 doesn’t take away any rights or benefits of gay or lesbian domestic partnerships. Under California law, “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits” as married spouses. (Family Code § 297.5.) There are NO exceptions. Proposition 8 WILL NOT change this.

    YES on Proposition 8 does three simple things:

    It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and human history has understood marriage to be.

    It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people.

    It protects our children from being taught in public schools that “same-sex marriage” is the same as traditional marriage.

    Proposition 8 protects marriage as an essential institution of society. While death, divorce, or other circumstances may prevent the ideal, the best situation for a child is to be raised by a married mother and father.

    The narrow decision of the California Supreme Court isn’t just about “live and let live.” State law may require teachers to instruct children as young as kindergarteners about marriage. (Education Code § 51890.) If the gay marriage ruling is not overturned, TEACHERS COULD BE REQUIRED to teach young children there is no difference between gay marriage and traditional marriage.

    We should not accept a court decision that may result in public schools teaching our kids that gay marriage is okay. That is an issue for parents to discuss with their children according to their own values and beliefs. It shouldn’t be forced on us against our will.

    Some will try to tell you that Proposition 8 takes away legal rights of gay domestic partnerships. That is false. Proposition 8 DOES NOT take away any of those rights and does not interfere with gays living the lifestyle they choose.

    However, while gays have the right to their private lives, they do not have the right to redefine marriage for everyone else.

    CALIFORNIANS HAVE NEVER VOTED FOR SAME-SEX MARRIAGE. If gay activists want to legalize gay marriage, they should put it on the ballot. Instead, they have gone behind the backs of voters and convinced four activist judges in San Francisco to redefine marriage for the rest of society. That is the wrong approach.

    Voting YES on Proposition 8 RESTORES the definition of marriage that was approved by over 61% of voters. Voting YES overturns the decision of four activist judges. Voting YES protects our children.

    Please vote YES on Proposition 8 to RESTORE the meaning of marriage.

    RON PRENTICE, President
    California Family Council

    ROSEMARIE "ROSIE" AVILA, Governing Board Member
    Santa Ana Unified School District

    BISHOP GEORGE McKINNEY, Director
    Coalition of African American Pastors

    As a side note, Prop. 8 has nothing to do with interracial marriage. It has to do with perserving the rights for all.
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    Thanks for reposting the original text. And yes, I know Prop 8 has nothing to do with interracial marriage. I am simply making the point that we can look to history for guidance. It's clear to most people that if the bill was about interracial marriage that it would be silly, unfair, and wrong. Why is it OK for this same language to single out ANY minority?

    Also, just curious if you're for or against Prop 8. Were you just reposting the original text in fairness? I ask because you end your comment with "It has to do with preserving the rights for all." I would agree that a NO vote does exactly that -- but supporting Prop 8 is precisely the opposite.

    Thanks for your comment.
  • prop8discussion · 1 year ago
    gender matters in marriage. it has nothing to do with racial discrimination. children have a right to a mom and a dad. by bringing up interracial marriage-- you are just distracting from the real problem at hand.

    if government extends the definition to same-sex couples, it makes marriage genderless-- and it says to children --we don't care if you have a mom and a dad.

    that's why i'm voting yes on prop 8.

    also, historically gender has ALWAYS mattered in marriage, whereas the interracial marriage movement was an isolated problem in a period of history (not that it didn't happen more than once).

    http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/11/03...
  • willotoons · 1 year ago
    I'm not sure how many kids you have talked to who have lesbian and gay parents, but there are already a lot of them out there, and they will tell you that being raised in a stable, loving home has nothing to do with the sex of their parents. Good parenting has nothing to do with gender.

    This is a great article & video from a few teens who will tell you themselves:
    http://www.proudparenting.com/node/2087
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    great article & awesome video, willo! thanks for the link. we have lots of queer friends with awesome, happy, healthy, stable kids. but stories & links like the ones from proudparenting are good to have "in the arsenal". :)
  • hillary hartley · 1 year ago
    your argument assumes that kids cannot learn "dad things" from a female, or "mom things" from a male. i grew up with a mom and a dad, and would like to think that i will pass things i learned from both of them on to my kids. they will be surrounded with love -- not only from us but from my family, which includes dads, brothers, cousins, uncles and male friends.

    thanks for your comment. and as i've learned time and again when discussing polarizing issues, we're going to have to agree to disagree.